Talk:Jen Zee

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cielquiparle (talk) 17:25, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that game designer of the video game Hades said that the characters were attractive "because Jen Zee"? Source: "When I asked game designer Greg Kasavin why everyone was so damned hot, he told me it was a deliberate choice. Everyone, from Megaera to Thanatos (call me, zaddy), down to even Asterius and Dusa owe their attractiveness to the vision of Supergiant’s art team. “There’s a really simple answer to your question,” he said via email. “Because Jen Zee.”" [1]
  • ALT1: ... that Jen Zee was the recipient of a British Academy Games Award for Artistic Achievement for her work on Hades? Source: "ARTISTIC ACHIEVEMENT HADES Jen Zee – Supergiant Games/Supergiant Games" [2] [3]
  • ALT2: ... that social media "has gone mad" for Jen Zee's character portraits in Hades? Source: "Perhaps this is just everyone’s lockdown libido desperately searching for an outlet, but in the past couple of weeks social media has gone mad for art director Jen Zee’s wonderfully drawn gods and monsters, with their elegant musculature, casually revealing outfits and appropriately godlike profiles." [4]
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Fishing in Turkey
  • Comment: Loved making this article, and there's more hooks from the well if needed (although I think we're on the right track already here!)

Created by Nomader (talk). Self-nominated at 04:23, 17 March 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Jen Zee; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited:
• Interesting: - n
• Other problems: - I feel ALT1 needs more contextual understanding ALT2 needs to be reworded to sound more neutral.

QPQ: Done.

Overall: lullabying (talk) 06:35, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

• Sorry, ALT1 is actually good! The original comment was for ALT0. Good to go. lullabying (talk) 06:38, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

No offense to Nomader, but I suggest failing this article, as from a review of the sources, it fails WP:NARTIST. All sources are either WP:SYNTH, trivial mentions or interviews. Artists must have actual WP:SIGCOV to qualify for articles - it seems she is best covered under the Supergiant Games article instead. I would definitely suggest expanding the Supergiant article with her role in their various games, but nothing about the sources suggests a standalone article about her should exist, and she is predominantly known for her work at Supergiant. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 07:16, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

@Nomader, Lullabying, and Zxcvbnm:, Jen Zee has been boldly redirected, so the nomination needs to go on hold until deletion discussions are resolved, see D5 at WP:DYKSG. TSventon (talk) 12:42, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

@TSventon:@Zxcvbnm: Thanks for the ping, TSventon and no offense taken whatsoever, Zxcvbnm. Will start a discussion with you on Talk. Nomader (talk) 14:36, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

nomination is on hold Bruxton (talk) 19:31, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

Article has been kept. All clear. Cielquiparle (talk) 17:23, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Notability discussion

@Zxcvbnm: First, want to emphasize no offense taken and as always, appreciate your input, and candidly, see where you're coming from. I haven't un-redirected the article yet, but I don't think this is as clear cut as you think though.

• Per WP:NARTIST, 4c says, "won significant critical attention." I'd argue that a BAFTA for Artistic Achievement that was awarded to well, her specifcally, definitely qualifies for at least most of it, and the deluge of critical reception that calls her out by name specifically is rare in video games. Her win was actually the reason that I created this article (most other winners had their own pages). She was also (on her own as a credit) nominated for a DICE award as well.
• I'd argue that although interviews feature in most of the articles that are more about "her", they do feature commentary about her work as well (in a way a straight interview article normally wouldn't) and pass WP:SIGCOV. Examples include: [5], [6], [7].
• The mentions are also extremely extensive in reviews and repeatedly call her out by name in a way that we have to admit is rare in video games. At a certain point, once someone has enough coverage like this, I think it qualifies. [8], [9], [10], [11], [12].

My gut is I'd probably revert this redirect and have you bring it up for deletion discussion, but wanted to get your take on all of these arguments first (I trust you enough that if you're like, "Nomader this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen it's not even close" that I probably wouldn't). Nomader (talk) 15:04, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

@Nomader: Ultimately WP:NARTIST and other specific guidelines are more of a suggestion that there are probably sources out there. In other words "hey, if you see an artist who has this, don't rush to delete before checking". The GNG is the final arbiter though. It says that "meeting one or more does not guarantee that a subject should be included."

While Jen Zee gets a lot of praise - in trivial mentions of her, there is no article specifically on her. 50 trivial shout-outs in reviews still do not fulfill the WP:SIGCOV criterion.

If you want to revert it and have me send it to AfD I am more than happy to do that, assuming you still believe my reasoning is unsound. There is a chance I may be wrong, but I'm almost positive that it's correct (and Supergiant Games is an excellent WP:ATD target that can contain almost all the information that is in the current article without it being WP:UNDUE). ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 16:21, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

I still completely understand where you're coming from, but I'm going to take up your offer to bring this to AfD and I've restored the page in the meantime. I think it meets the "significant coverage" criterion of WP:SIGCOV as even though she isn't the main topic in a number of articles, her role is still covered in-depth through them. For when you nominate the AfD, you may want to review Darren Korb as well who I feel has a similar level of notability at a glance to see if you want to bundle them (although I haven't done an in-depth survey of coverage here yet). Nomader (talk) 18:04, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

I agree about Darren Korb, and also think he should be merged to Supergiant Games. All of the coverage is trivial or primary. That said, I won't bundle them due to the risk of a WP:TRAINWRECK. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 21:44, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

Real name

Is Jen Zee the artist’s real name, or was it adopted as a pun on the phrase “Gen Z” (i.e., Generation Z)? I think the article should clarify that. When I saw the quote on the main page, I initially thought the reviewer was making up a cute nickname for Generation Z, rather than referring to a person. 2600:1014:B033:BF7E:3597:59E3:7623:DDAC (talk) 21:07, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

Just seeing this now-- her name is actually Jen Zee. Zee is a common Chinese surname, and she was born well before "Gen Z" became a reference point here. Because it's not a joke or a changed name, the article doesn't mention it (as sources also don't mention it). Nomader (talk) 06:14, 18 April 2023 (UTC)